203 Grow Your Own Woo

Episode : . A Blue background with a yellow neuron with a body the shape of a star. Words say Ex-gifted podcast. Helping exceptional kids become functional adults. A Yellow stripe across the bottom reads With Raine Eliza from chaoticorganized.com

Growth mindset applies to the spiritual realm as well as the intellectual or physical. Here’s some options if you’re interested in expanding your own understanding in this area so you can grow your own woo and establish a spiritual practice that works for you.

Get Labyrinthos and get started with tarot for free!

Some witchy accounts to follow on YouTube:


Kelly-Ann Maddox

The Witches’ Cookery

Rachael Stephen

The Witch of Wonderlust

But exactly who you want to follow will depend on what you want to learn! My list has an obvious European bent due to that being my focus. If you have witchy friends, ask them for resources!


A lifetime of distancing yourself from anything that doesn’t make immediate logical sense, separating you not only from spirit and magic, but your own emotions as well. You want to open yourself up to new beliefs but aren’t sure where to start.

What we can do about it:


Check out my Ko-Fi page! It's the best way to support this show.

The natural 1 membership is for normal people and only costs $1 a month, but still unlocks every single post that you can only get otherwise with a minimum of a $3 donation, as well as the challenges and on-demand content in the Members Hub.

Join the Natural 1 membership for only $1/month!

And all monthly subscribers at either level will get a shoutout at the end of each episode of Ex-Gifted! (please message me with the name I should use!)

My current goal is to reach a modest $20 every month. As I've redesigned and cut back, this is approximately my monthly budget for podcast hosting, web domains, email service, and all those other little things that add up. Once I reach that point – I’m having a party and will look forward to putting out some rewards and coming up with some kind of fun goal other than just breaking even.

You can also find me at https://instagram.com/chaotic.organized on Instagram and https://chaoticorganized.com for more executive dysfunction tips and commiseration.


Kawai Kitsune by Kevin MacLeod

Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4990-kawai-kitsune

License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

About the Ex-Gifted Podcast:

If you are a former gifted kid who grew up to struggle with basic adulting, then you need the Ex-Gifted podcast.

Host Ren Eliza talks about gifted kid burnout, and the damage that lasts long into adulthood. Damage like battered self esteem, decimated internal motivation, and a continued failure to live up to expectations even while we were placed on pedestals and alienated from our peers.

Ex-Gifted will cover failure, procrastination, imposter syndrome, and chronic anxiety and depression, and a whole lot more.

Each episode also offers suggestions to deal with your executive dysfunction in adulthood so you can rebuild the systems that allowed you to shine so brightly in childhood.

We’re making exceptional children into functional adults.



Before we begin, if you’ve been keeping track, this special kinda alternative Halloween episode is also the 13th episode of Ex-Gifted, and because of that perfection I wanted to use this opportunity to make an announcement! The 2022 Chaotic Organized Roleplanning System is prepped and ready for pre-order and you can sign up for it RIGHT NOW on my Ko-fi page ko-fi.com/reneliza that’s K-O dash F-I slash Ren Eliza.

Stay tuned after the end of the episode for a really big announcement and offer for anyone who preorders!

This episode is one that came out of nowhere and since it’s Halloween weekend it seemed like the perfect time for it

My degree is in engineering and neuroscience. I am a very logical and analytical.

I’ve also recently started reading tarot cards

Do I contradict myself? I contain multitudes.

But I didn’t always

A few weeks ago I was in a group on facebook where someone asked a question about tarot. She got hundreds of comments and at least 90% of them were from people saying “I don’t know anything about tarot cards and  I can’t answer your question because I don’t know what it means, but you know that tarot cards are all fake and made up, right?”

And a year ago I would’ve been saying the exact same thing. Which. Ugh is so cringey.

But I am Logical and Analytical and people who think of themselves as capital L logical tend to disregard any and every idea if they can’t immediately see how it fits into their personal logical system – note that logic isn’t really universal but of course in western society we like to believe that logic was invented by the ancient greeks and that’s the end of the story.

In other words, we love our bias when something contradicts one of our premises. In this case, that reading tarot is bullshit.

But here’s the important part – all these people admitted that they didn’t know anything about tarot – except that it’s bullshit apparently. Which…doesn’t sound like a conclusion derived from logic and reason at all, but one that stems from prejudice.

Now – I’m not going to sit here and tell you that you should treat every opinion as equally valid and hear everyone out in case they have something valuable to offer within their load of crap. We have limited days on this earth and there are too many people with ridiculous ideas for that to be a worthwhile use of anyone’s time. Plus I don’t care what you do so should never comes into it.

Today I’m just talking to the people like me who WANT to grow their capacity for spirituality and don’t even know where to begin, or how to get started when 90% of the people sound completely ridiculous and a solid 60% are just trying to get your credit card info to “sell” you enlightenment.

For many of you, this might be something you have no interest in, and that’s fine, but if you have ever had an interest in deepening your spiritual or emotional experience, it was very important to me to let you know that growth mindset applies in these arenas too.

I’ve only ever heard people talk about growth mindset when it comes to mental or physical skills, not something like spiritual growth. So when I started this path myself it required a complete mindset shift after decades of telling myself that emotions were bad and spiritual practice was not for me.

You may know by now that I’ve changed my business name to Chaotic Organized, and part of the reason for that, for leaning into the chaos is a desire to get deeper in touch with the disordered and the non-logical. With my emotions and with potential mysticism.

That’s the second time in as many minutes that I’ve kind of equated my emotions with something magical and I know there’s someone listening who is shouting that they’re not the same thing. And if they’re not, for you, then that’s fair.

But to me the parallels between the two are much greater than any distinctions.

I was, until very recently, involved with a political group that particularly strongly views reason as a moral good – and I mean that quite literally – and emotion as a hindrance that can only impair us. It’s not a religion and denies any kind of superstition or supernatural beliefs, but they treat emotion the same as a religion might treat sin. Repent for the emotional mistakes of youth and avoid the temptation to feel in the future.

And I really bought into this. There was religion and fantasy and feelings on one side and logic and reality on the other side, and never could that line be crossed.

My culture has an unhealthy fixation on logic and reason and I grew up in a subgroup that is especially bad about this, so I spent years basically trying to abuse and insult myself into quieting my emotions because of this.

Note that this doesn’t actually make your feelings go away, you just forget how to feel them or what to do with them. Which is why the people yelling about facts over feelings are so clearly emotional as they do so.

And just that – just calling someone “emotional” – “Emotional” is literally a word used as an insult. And it’s meant to immediately shut the other person up and undermine everything they have said. And against whom is this insult typically wielded? Not generally white men.

Have you ever heard the word “logical” used to silence someone?

And of course we have an obvious long and bloody history of oppression of these same people – women and people of color – around their mystical beliefs as well. Not much that silences someone like burning her at the stake.

Emotion and magic are both forms of power that fight against the tidy logical box that patriarchal puritanical stoic European culture wants to keep us locked inside.

Just simply allowing your feelings, unapologetically, and without disregarding them as a lesser form of wisdom is a protest for social justice.

And now, decades later, I’m finally doing the hard work to undo all that damage I’ve done trying to sever the parts of myself. Mind. Body. Spirit.

For me, magic IS emotions. But then again I’m a Cancer so… (psst that’s a joke)

So if you’ve been interested in trying to heal this part of you as well, I’ve got great news for you. Spiritual growth is no different from anything else. We can do hard things still applies.

And you can use skills you already have.

Now you might be wondering How to develop a growth mindset for woo

This week I have two propositions: one for the researchers in the group and another that is more hands on, but there are two rules that apply to both.

First off, every time you start getting skeptical, try to replace it with curiosity instead. This doesn’t mean you believe everything you hear, it means you replace the sentence “That can’t possibly be true” with the question “How could that possibly be true?”

It’s impossible to learn from a proclamation made from a place of ignorance – remember the tarot-haters above insisting they knew nothing about tarot except that it was bullshit – but there’s plenty to be learned from a question.

And yes, sometimes the answer you come to is “oh, it’s isn’t true” and that’s okay too. That brings us to the second guideline. Only keep the parts that work for you. Leave the rest behind. This is YOUR spiritual practice so you get to define it 100%

Finally, don’t give anyone your credit card info. I mean you already know that, but… There’s so much you can do for free, it’s not necessary when you first start. If you decide you are really interested in certain practices, by then you’ll know where you want your money to go and who you want to support.

Okay so Research is really one of the best places to dive in because there’s just so much to learn, especially if you haven’t been to exposed to much when it comes to magic or pagan ideology. If you’re not sure where to start, I’d say check out your lineage. I’m mostly of Celtic descent so my next topic to-read is about druidic beliefs and rituals. Plus I’m a gardener so that shit’s just like…right up my alley. Who knows, maybe it’s in my blood?

But the first thing I started researching was astrology. Hear me out. It’s an area where I struggle because it all seems so silly. But I’m really interested in astronomy and mythology – both my kids have mythological names- and astrology is full of both of those things.

For years I approached astrology and the people involved with such disdain that I was never able to gain anything from it, or learn anything about it. But this time, I didn’t do that. I started to roll my eyes, then paused and thought to myself that no, I can just listen and see what parts of this I actually want to keep and explore deeper.

If you start with research, make sure to come from a place of curiosity, and asking questions – not to shut them down – but to actually learn where they’re coming from, there’s a lot of really interesting things you can learn from astrologers. And you can do it all without literally believing that the position of the planets at the time of your birth determines your personality.

I even have an altar to the moon in my office now, as I’m working with her to help guide me toward greater emotional acceptance and understanding.

Does that sound nuts? If so…why? Why is taking time every week to sit down with a notebook and a candle and allow myself to examine my emotions a strange practice? And here’s a big one… Even if I believed that the moon was literally going to reach down from the sky and influence me in that process… so what?

Learning about witchcraft, or astrology, or tarot, or any other kind of mysticism can’t harm you. And we’re all gifted kids here Learning is what we’re best at!

On the other hand, if you want to get hands-on, I really recommend people start where I did. Tarot is amazing for spiritual beginners because it doesn’t tell you anything you don’t already know on some level.

You can use tarot without any supernatural beliefs.

If you don’t already have a deck, that’s not a problem! Go download the app called Labyrinthos. It is an entirely free, no ads, tarot reading app. It will teach you everything you need to know about tarot, but you can get started without any of the research. Just ask yourself a question, and pull a single card.

Study the picture on the card and how it relates to your question.

Don’t expect the cards to do explicit fortune telling or mind reading. That would be silly. Think of it like a Rorshach test. The cards don’t answer the question. YOU answer the question, the card just helps the thoughts come out easier.

And also like… tarot is a nice safe place to start because you’re not doing spells or rituals that might accidentally piss off the fae. I might not believe in bigfoot or spirits or ghosts or demons and stuff but I’m still superstitious enough to know better than to get entangled with the fae… just in case.

The only real risk with tarot is allowing the card itself to bias your answers.

You know how sometimes you ask someone for their input on two options, and as soon as they say option A you feel instant regret and know in your heart that option B was what you really wanted?

Funny enough, it’s your feelings can help with that. Always do a gut check on your tarot answers. If the answer fits well with the card, but it just doesn’t feel right, then explore that. See what works better. Maybe even draw a second card for clarification.

Curiosity is almost always the best way to learn any new thing. Remember that the scientific method is meant to be used to ask questions. If you design an experiment to prove someone else wrong, your bias will influence your results 100% of the time.

And how logical is that?

Before you go – my big announcement! If you’re on video you may notice it’s a different day, because I changed my clothes. If you’re listening to the podcast you may notice I’m very sick and have almost no voice. Let’s power through anyway, hmm?

The first 13 people who purchase the Roleplanning System will also be invited to join the Quest for Chaos. This is a program I’m starting where I will be your real life GM while we focus on a shared Quest each quarter. The first quest will run from January through March (or 13 weeks if you will), and it’s entirely free for up to 13 people who sign up for the pre-order. I will have individual chats with each of you including a session zero to set up your roleplanning system and set intentions, and help you find both the motivation and an actual process that will make you WANT to keep coming back to your planner. Plus we’ll have repeating accountability sessions, weekly plan-with-mes, and occasional virtual meet ups in character for anyone who wants to show off their new skills.

If you want to get started using a planner in 2022, then consider this a jump-start for your new Year’s resolution.

In the future the quest for chaos will be part of a monthly subscription, but as a special launch offer, it’s coming included when you purchase the roleplanning system for $25. So no automatic renewals, no need to purchase anything else. And you’ll get the Roleplanning System starter kit PLUS 13 weeks in the quest for chaos club. I literally spend more than that every month just on stickers and pens to use inside my planner.

My email list and Ko-Fi followers got a little bit of a head start so I’ve already filled a few spots. If you’re interested, make sure you click that link in the show notes and sign up soon!

If you’re not interested in the quest for chaos, but you are interested in Roleplanning itself go look it over at ko-fi.com/reneliza

There’s absolutely no obligation to join the quest if, for example you already have a solid planner habit or you just don’t want to.

But here’s the cool thing: if you already have a planner you love, you’re in good company! I basically bought out the hobonichi planner lineup for 2022.

That’s right I’m trying to sell you a planner I’m not even using. But hear me out! Check out my Kofi page and I’ll show you how to use the Roleplanning system within any planner of your choice. More tutorials are planned as well so you can keep your bullet journal or your sweet, sweet tomoe river paper. Sigh

In the future I even hope to make roleplanning stickers that can convert your journal into a role-planner with little to no effort on your part! But that’ll take a minute so until then go visit my Kofi page and follow me so you’ll know the second those stickers come available on my shop.

One last fun little reminder – this is the last episode that will have a publicly available video feed. Videos going forward will only be for supporters on Ko-Fi, BUT that includes anyone who has made a $3 donation or purchase in the last 30 days. So your roleplanning purchase will do double duty, and will also get you access to supporter perks like the video feed for the next 30 days.

That’s it for this episode of the Ex-Gifted Podcast. Join me in two weeks to chat some more about growth mindset.


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